Eastman stops using Nitro switches to Truetone

[Meathead]

Donovantyler's comment ("The sweet smell I've been smelling, and still do is from the Truetone") sent me to my guitars to sniff at the soundholes (which sounds suspiciously kinky, but hey...)  

Steve... your comment had me laughing... that was funny

[donovantyler]

A guitar shop owner that i've been messaging with about this had this to say about the Bourgeoisie finish ..
--
Mark is my rep with Eastman and sent me the email. I carried Bourgeois guitars for a long time and agree that the finish he uses is almost imperceptible to nitro. It does give off the same characteristics even in the color of the finish and how it affects the color of the wood.
--
Just thought i'd share that positive review..I thought that was good to hear.

[UncleJesse]

I can’t say I’m a fan of Bourgeois getting involved with and affecting Eastman’s build practices, for example, Eastman recently using bolt on necks for their Madagascan Rosewood series. Eastman started out following Martin’s formula of dovetail necks and nitro finish to get a great tone, I’m not a fan of the Bourgeois tone in general, it leans more towards Taylor in terms of hot mids and thin trebles (possibly due to the single scalloped bracing) and less sustain from the bolt on neck construction in my opinion. 

Bourgeois uses both types of bracing.  Their standard is indeed only scalloped on one side, but a lot of their guitars have what's called "Banjo Killer" bracing which is double scalloped in the Martin style.

[eastmanschool]

Eastman has been playing fast and loose with their specs for a long time now; string spacing measurements have been more a suggestion than a standard, tops COULD be sikta or maybe they're Alpine, areas that are unbraced on one E6D might be braced on another E6D, neck carves? you pays your money and you takes your chance. To say nothing of the B-stock guitars that are advertised at low-low prices, without any acknowledgement that they're B-stock.

When these deviations are occasionally mentioned here, participants usually chalk it up to the "handmade" nature of Eastman, and it's all good.

I understand the frustration expressed by those of you mildly disappointed to up in arms about the (secret) switch to Truetone, but come on, why are you surprised?

[donovantyler]

..yeah.. i'm not used to these switch-ups.
But the pluses far outweigh the drawbacks with Eastman.
For me, on this purchase (eastman ac822ce) it was a replacement guitar for my beloved 1984 Martin OM-28.. i just needed something more reliable for performance.
Nitro was a checklist "must have" item for me on this and I took a lot of pains to make sure that it was.. (talked with sales at the seller, spec sheet said it was, etc..) and then 8 weeks later i find out that they switched it all out behind the scenes, didn't warn or say this change happened 6 months ago and the worst is that there is still no authoritative info on exactly what this Truetone is. I talked with Mark yesterday and he seems like a great guy and super knowledgeable about these guitars and their production. Mark says it's a "water-based lacquer that's very close to nitro. Thinner than nitro. Looks and feels like nitro. Ages like nitro. " Yet the Eastman memo calls it a "dual urethane". Are those the same thing? I'm not qualified to know really.
Dana at Bourgeois has three different proprietary finishes that he offers.  If this is from Dana then which one is it?

The good thing is that it's probably a very good finish in the long run, on many levels.
I do love the guitar and I do like the finish.
I feel a lot better about what I have after talking with Mark.  I just don't like surprises like this on a $2,130 purchase.

[Vapour]

..yeah.. i'm not used to these switch-ups.
But the pluses far outweigh the drawbacks with Eastman.
.
.
.
I feel a lot better about what I have after talking with Mark.  I just don't like surprises like this on a $2,130 purchase.

For a long time the pluses have outweighed the drawbacks.  You were getting a no-excuses handmade instrument with a nitro finish at a steal of a price.  The adi came from "the same place Colling's sources their's", the rosewood was plantation grown in "SE Asia", and I'm pretty sure that's Khaya for the mahogany.  

Now though, the prices have gone up enough that I'm personally looking at Larrivee's as a similar-priced alternative.  Although I'm sure the new finish will sound great, but it's going to be another compromise from what they were doing last year.  It was pretty cool to play some of those alpine tops, but I think it's ridiculous that I had to let my local shop know what they were.  

I say this as the owner of 4 four fantastic Eastmans that are going nowhere, but I think the increasing price and sacrifices to what made them special will hurt them.  Of course the market will let them know.

[donovantyler]

..yeah.. i'm not used to these switch-ups.
But the pluses far outweigh the drawbacks with Eastman.
.
.
.
I feel a lot better about what I have after talking with Mark.  I just don't like surprises like this on a $2,130 purchase.

For a long time the pluses have outweighed the drawbacks.  You were getting a no-excuses handmade instrument with a nitro finish at a steal of a price.  The adi came from "the same place Colling's sources their's", the rosewood was plantation grown in "SE Asia", and I'm pretty sure that's Khaya for the mahogany.  

Now though, the prices have gone up enough that I'm personally looking at Larrivee's as a similar-priced alternative.  Although I'm sure the new finish will sound great, but it's going to be another compromise from what they were doing last year.  It was pretty cool to play some of those alpine tops, but I think it's ridiculous that I had to let my local shop know what they were.  

I say this as the owner of 4 four fantastic Eastmans that are going nowhere, but I think the increasing price and sacrifices to what made them special will hurt them.  Of course the market will let them know. 

What are the "Alpine" tops?

[Vapour]

..yeah.. i'm not used to these switch-ups.
But the pluses far outweigh the drawbacks with Eastman.
.
.
.
I feel a lot better about what I have after talking with Mark.  I just don't like surprises like this on a $2,130 purchase.

For a long time the pluses have outweighed the drawbacks.  You were getting a no-excuses handmade instrument with a nitro finish at a steal of a price.  The adi came from "the same place Colling's sources their's", the rosewood was plantation grown in "SE Asia", and I'm pretty sure that's Khaya for the mahogany.  

Now though, the prices have gone up enough that I'm personally looking at Larrivee's as a similar-priced alternative.  Although I'm sure the new finish will sound great, but it's going to be another compromise from what they were doing last year.  It was pretty cool to play some of those alpine tops, but I think it's ridiculous that I had to let my local shop know what they were.  

I say this as the owner of 4 four fantastic Eastmans that are going nowhere, but I think the increasing price and sacrifices to what made them special will hurt them.  Of course the market will let them know.  

What are the "Alpine" tops? 

Eastman substituted Alpine (probably "moon") spruce for sitka in the tc models earlier this year with no documentation (at least for a few months).   I emailed eastman a serial number on a very pale e6om-tc and they couldn't tell me what wood they used.  It's ostensibly an upgrade that they should have noted, but dealers were selling them as sitka since that was what came on the box.

[RoyBoy]

Fellows I need your advice..
Last week I sent an email to Artisan Guitars in Nashville who I bought my AC822CE from new on May 24 2021. The out-the-door prices was $2,130 with no tax, no shipping.
The date on the card that came with my guitar is April 06 2021.  I had just read on FB about the Truetone switch and there it said that the switch went into effect June 1 2021.  My guitar has a date of April 06 2021 so I thought that mine was definitely nitro.
Not only that but Artisan has a very nice web site where you buy and on that site there are pics of the actual guitar, detailed specs and the serial number of the actual guitar that you are buying. I have an image on my guitars page and it clearly says Nitrocellulose finish. I was very careful on that as I definitely wanted nitro, I would not have bought the guitar if it was not nitro and nitro is for me a big selling point to buying Eastman guitars.

Thought it was all settled and I was in the clear but last night i got a reply email from Artisan and they said that they spoke with their "rep" and he said that the change actually took place about 6 months ago and that my guitar was the new Truetone finish.  They are "very sorry".. the listing on the website was out of date and they didn't find out about the new finish until they got a memo from Eastman on May 29, etc... They will be happy to let me talk to the rep, etc...

Well, I'm kinda SUPER PISSED. This has so far been like a shell game.
I've got 3 Eastman acoustic guitars here.. bought two dreadnoughts used and each are about 1 year old and my new AC822CE and i've been going between them and touching them to see if I can feel a difference.  The two dreads have a lovely deep, shiny finish that feels very "un-plastic"  and almost has a tackiness to it (I love that). My new AC822CE seems to feel the same way.
The other thing is that the 822 has this (kind of powerful) lovely sweet smell.  The first week you could smell it all over the house.  Lovely experience.
It's not as pungent as a month ago but you can still smell it, i can smell it now.  Isn't that a hallmark of nitro?

Anyway.. Last night (when i was having an inner temper-tantrum) I sent the question about my guitar to Eastman using their "ask us anything" page on their website and I haven't heard back yet.
I replied to Artisan that they need to be certain about this and if it is in fact not nitro, I want a refund and I will ship the guitar back to them.
I do like the guitar but I don't know about truetone, how it will age.. right now it depreciates the value of the guitar (at least in my mind) and IT'S THE PRINCIPAL as well.
Please advise fellows! thanks

So it looks the same, feels the same, and smells the same as nitro? I'd say they're getting darn close. I gather then, your biggest concern is that it won't yellow like nitro? In twenty years nitro will be yellowed nicely but it won't affect the value. I just traded in my year old E20D-TC with a beautiful cooked adi top. For trade I got 1/2 what I paid for it so that they could hopefully get $1100 for it. Recent year Martins are currently going for near the same price as current new ones.

[donovantyler]

..yeah.. i'm not used to these switch-ups.
But the pluses far outweigh the drawbacks with Eastman.
.
.
.
I feel a lot better about what I have after talking with Mark.  I just don't like surprises like this on a $2,130 purchase.

For a long time the pluses have outweighed the drawbacks.  You were getting a no-excuses handmade instrument with a nitro finish at a steal of a price.  The adi came from "the same place Colling's sources their's", the rosewood was plantation grown in "SE Asia", and I'm pretty sure that's Khaya for the mahogany.  

Now though, the prices have gone up enough that I'm personally looking at Larrivee's as a similar-priced alternative.  Although I'm sure the new finish will sound great, but it's going to be another compromise from what they were doing last year.  It was pretty cool to play some of those alpine tops, but I think it's ridiculous that I had to let my local shop know what they were.  

I say this as the owner of 4 four fantastic Eastmans that are going nowhere, but I think the increasing price and sacrifices to what made them special will hurt them.  Of course the market will let them know.   

What are the "Alpine" tops?  

Eastman substituted Alpine (probably "moon") spruce for sitka in the tc models earlier this year with no documentation (at least for a few months).   I emailed eastman a serial number on a very pale e6om-tc and they couldn't tell me what wood they used.  It's ostensibly an upgrade that they should have noted, but dealers were selling them as sitka since that was what came on the box. 

So, Mark Herring (lead Eastman string instruments technician/manager) is pretty certain that the change to Truetone started last December and for a certain period this year it will be almost impossible for even Eastman to determine which guitars have Truetone and which have the old finish. Mine he said is 90% certain to be Truetone.. and it has the smell too hehe.
Days ago I submitted a question about my guitars finish to Eastman using their Ask Us Anything form on their website. I included purchase date, date on the card and serial number, store I bought it from, etc.
The day i talked to Mark I got a reply from Eastman telling me that my guitar is Nitro.. haha!
I'm believing Mark at this point.  At this point I've got to laugh.
I do love the guitar and the finish seems really nice.

On another note: Somebody said that they were going to be looking at Larivee as an alternative.
I'm not very familiar with their guitars but those don't look competitive against Eastman cost-wise and they don't use nitro.