Eastman stops using Nitro switches to Truetone

[donovantyler]

The date on the card that came with my guitar is April 06 2021.  I had just read on FB about the Truetone switch and there it said that the switch went into effect June 1 2021.  My guitar has a date of April 06 2021 so I thought that mine was definitely nitro.

Remember the date on the card does not necessarily equate to when the guitar was built.  When you communicate with Eastman, you need to tell them the serial number.

I bought an E20P in late March of this year.  The card had a Mar11, 2021 date.  I was fairly sure that the guitar wasn't built and delivered in a eleven day time span, so I sent them both the date on the card and the serial number.

They replied that my guitar was built in 2020, so it was definitely nitro.  I guess that doesn't contradict what they told you.

Just out of curiosity, what are the first 4 characters of your serial number?  Mine is M200...... 

wow thanks!
i did include the serial number:
M20272119
please let me know your thoughts. thanks!

---

Okay.. i just talked with Ellie at Artisian Guitars (owner) and she said that their rep said that they made the switch in December of last year.
THey will NOT give me a refund. The best she would do would be to take the guitar back on consignment and then subtract 10% fee.
I told her that didn't sound fair to me.. that they should make this right.  That they should refund my money and then they can sell the guitar used on their website. I said that they are making this my problem and that it is really their problem..she said no it isn't!
I told her that I wanted to escalate and she said that she would forward me the Eastman reps contact information, she then quickly apologized that I was upset but it isn't they're problem..then she bid me a good day and hung up (kind of hung up on me).
Wow.. on so many levels.
Apparently Artisan Guitars is not willing to make this right.
Does anyone have the contact info for someone at Eastman who can deal with this for me?
What can I do now?

[donovantyler]

I spoke with Mark Herring at Eastman Fretted Instruments.. He explained to me that Truetone is a water-based Laquer developed by Dana and that Dana has been using it on his guitars for > 10 years.  He said that it's thinner than nitro, has the same feel as nitro, produces a tone at least as good as nitro but is not nearly as toxic or dangerous to the planet or the humans that build the guitars.  He said that it will age just like nitro but won't crack or check due to temp changes, etc..
[align=start]Mark explained to me.. it can't really be Artisan's fault. Nobody was told really when they started using the Truetone at the factories in CH. also, "it isn't like they flip a switch and it all happens at once." I now see that Artisan in good faith thought that my guitar was nitro. I have apologized to Ellie for being upset.. i felt blindsided by this. I was very careful to read their spec sheet saying that my guitar was nitro - serial number shown. I wouldn't have bought it had it said something other than nitro. Bill told me on the phone prior to my purchase that it was nitro. Alas, they couldn't have known that Eastman was going to change their finish on that guitar.[/align]
[align=start]After talking with Mark H. i feel much better about Truetone and am still very happy with my AC822CE.[/align]
[align=start]They should put something out explaining what Trutone is, how Dana developed it, how it affects the quality of the guitar and sound and how it will age imo. [/align]

[donovantyler]

[align=start]UPDATE:[/align]
[align=start]Had a conversation with Mark Herring, Fretted Instruments Product Specialist at Eastman Music just now..[/align]
[align=start]He explained that Artisan Guitars could not have known which guitars got Trutone and they truly believed in good faith that this guitar was nitro. Eastman cannot make this kind of change all at once and with there production cycles and the impact of the pandemic on sales and shipping, it's almost impossible to know which exact guitars were before and which after the switch, etc..[/align]
[align=start]Certainly dealers can not know that. I have apologized to Ellie at Artisan for being upset, and i meant it.[/align]
[align=start]Mark was explaining what Truetone is: Water-based laquer on top of a poly base (sealer). He said that was developed by Dana and has been used on his guitars for over 10 years.[/align]
[align=start]The sweet smell i've been smelling , and still do is from the Truetone. He said that it will age like nitro, get that yellow patina over time but that doesn't happen because of nitro anyway. Something about the wood de-gassing over time and chemicals etc..[/align]
[align=start]This won't crack and check from temperature changes and it is thinner than nitro.. although it is less labor intensive..but the big plus is that it isn't as toxic as nitro to the earth nor to the humans that are applying it.[/align]
[align=start]He was very good at explaining that this is better and it wasn't done to make the guitars less hand-crafted, valuable, less top tier materials...it's better, makes the guitar better sounding, better value to own and better for the health of the earth and for the builders.[/align]
[align=start]i told him that he really needs to come up with something that explains what this is and why it is good, better and very cool.[/align]

[Pura Vida]

I go on vacation for a couple of weeks, and then this happens.  

Donovan, I’m glad you got to speak with Mark, who’s probably the most knowledgeable on the topic and a solid reputation.  Stepping into this late, coupled with the explanation that they’re adopting Dana’s finish solution, it actually makes a lot of sense (all three guitar labels will use the same finish), although the rollout of it seems poorly executed.

A few of us on EGF purchased the TC with Alpine Spruce, so I’m very curious if we got Nitro vs Truetone on those guitars.  I didn’t notice a difference, and it’s not a deal buster for me, but if they made the change six months ago, then it’s likely we might have Truetone and didn’t realize it.

[Meathead]

I go on vacation for a couple of weeks, and then this happens.  

Donovan, I’m glad you got to speak with Mark, who’s probably the most knowledgeable on the topic and a solid reputation.  Stepping into this late, coupled with the explanation that they’re adopting Dana’s finish solution, it actually makes a lot of sense (all three guitar labels will use the same finish), although the rollout of it seems poorly executed.

A few of us on EGF purchased the TC with Alpine Spruce, so I’m very curious if we got Nitro vs Truetone on those guitars.  I didn’t notice a difference, and it’s not a deal buster for me, but if they made the change six months ago, then it’s likely we might have Truetone and didn’t realize it.

Brian - I've been awaiting your response on this thread

At this point in the discussion I appreciate both sides of the coin.  I think Eastman could have rolled this out a bit better, as acoustic guitar players are a passionate bunch and I'd think most of us prefer the nitro finish... so if it is going to be changed, "it better be good!"  The fact that none of us have much experience with the new finish is adding fuel to the fire.  It would be great if we can eventually get an A/B between two of the same models to see if there is a difference.  If there truly is no difference, then I for one will be OK with the change, and even appreciate a top less susceptible to finish checking.

[sleigh]

I go on vacation for a couple of weeks, and then this happens.  

...

A few of us on EGF purchased the TC with Alpine Spruce, so I’m very curious if we got Nitro vs Truetone on those guitars.  I didn’t notice a difference, and it’s not a deal buster for me, but if they made the change six months ago, then it’s likely we might have Truetone and didn’t realize it.

As one of those who purchased a TC with Alpine Spruce, if mine happened to be Truetone rather than Nitro, I also didn't notice any difference and am pleased with the sound of the guitar, so no real issue except that Eastman should have been upfront and open about the change.

[AlanSam]

donovantyler - it is your guitar and if you're satisfied with it that's great! I am pleased for you. End of.

However, from my perspective Mark Herring's (ie Eastman's) explanation/excuse is unacceptable. I couldn't care less if the finish is synthesised from the milk of human kindness - if I am offered Nitro and I opt to buy Nitro, I expect Nitro. If the finish is changed from Nitro, then the product description should be changed, enabling me to make an informed decision on whether to purchase the product or not. If Truetone is so good, why not publicize the merits of the stuff and get their customer base on side? Or did Eastman employ a fait accompli because they feared a customer/retailer backlash on orders/sales? They didn't handle this badly - they handled it exactly as they wanted to.

The other points to be made are not strictly germane to the central point above. Firstly, Mark Herring indicated that it is a complex process shifting from Nitro to Trutone - well, isn't that why firms employ managers?
Is working with Nitro injurious to health, even with an investment in the appropriate equipment and waste disposal? I doubt it. Or if so why did it take 10+ years to do something about it? I assume any savings in costs accruing from the adoption of Truetone will be paid to the workers by way of an apology? And finally, dare I say it - I actually like a moderate degree of aeging (cracking/checking etc.) on a mature guitar.
Can I finally add that I have no problem personally with Mark Herring - he is doing his job so let's not shoot the messenger.

[sleigh]

Donovantyler's comment ("The sweet smell I've been smelling, and still do is from the Truetone") sent me to my guitars to sniff at the soundholes (which sounds suspiciously kinky, but hey...)  And y'know what, my E6D-TC (Alpine), purchased in June 2021 and with a date of 5-4-21 on the CoA actually does have a distinctly sweeter scent than my E10D (which I chose for comparison since at least the side and back woods are the same.)

So possibly I do have a Truetone finish on that one. Or maybe it's that Alpine spruce has a different (and sweeter) scent than Adi spruce, or maybe it's because I'm comparing a 2018 guitar (whose scent may have faded in the interim) to a 2021 one, or maybe it's because the interior wood was sealed differently (certainly the interior mahogany surface in the E6 looks different (and less glossy) than the interior surface of the E10 -- it seems to me I remember some conversation about that in the forum recently).

In the long run, it doesn't matter since I'm entirely happy with the E6D-TC Alpine and have no intention of pursuing a refund for it. As I said above, I wish Eastman would have been far more forthcoming about the change, when it happened, and with what models, but beyond that I still love the sound of the instrument and that's what matters most to me.

[Pura Vida]

Completely off-topic, except on the subject of unannounced changes, Eastman no longer lists the E6/E8 models in non-TC.  I noticed this last night, when I was looking into this Truetone topic.  Maybe it’s a short-term issue b/c they are back ordered, or perhaps, they don’t sell enough Sitka to keep both TC and non-TC models.  Or maybe the Alpine will permanently replace the Sitka models.  Who knows?

I’m jumping back into vacation mode for a few more days, but someone might want to create a separate thread about this change.

[pszy22]

If indeed Eastman has adopted the finish process used by Bourgeois --