Gotoh 510 tuners?

[Shishigashira]

Noobie question, are these literally just drop in ( the ones that are)?  I mean could I do it remembering that I have two left hands?

It seems like the answer varies.  In this same thread, one person bought them and put them in with no alterations and another had to enlarge the tuner hole for it to fit.

I suspect that the issue is that, as mentioned above, Gotoh makes four different versions of the open back tuners (and I'm not talking about different colors or buttons).  There are 510 and 510V and as far as I can tell the main difference between those two is the size from the center hole to the top screw (with the V being longer).

  And each of those has a version with a screw nut and a version with a push fit so they are either SXN or SXB with the N version being the one with the screw Nut (i think the B stands for bushing, but not sure).  According to their literature, the N version was designed to fit into holes drilled for sealed gear tuners (which have a larger hole).  I expect to fit an SXN510 would require opening up the tuner hole a bit.

So, long story short, Gotoh makes the SXN510, the SXN510V, the SXB510 and the SXB510V. I believe what would fit as a direct replacement for an Eastman ping tuner is the Gotoh SXB510 (not the V and not the N versions).  But I may be wrong.  Still, that's what I plan to order when I get a chance unless I figure out I've got it wrong. 

PS This would match StrayMan's experience with the Gotoh's ( "I changed mine out and they dropped right in the E10SS, SXB510s")

[Pura Vida]

Thanks for this explanation.  This is really helpful and explains the different options.

[StrayMan]

Noobie question, are these literally just drop in ( the ones that are)?  I mean could I do it remembering that I have two left hands?

I did it and I'm not really a do it yourself person. I took my time, 1 at a time and had No problems.

[Hanns]

Noobie question, are these literally just drop in ( the ones that are)?  I mean could I do it remembering that I have two left hands?

It seems like the answer varies.  In this same thread, one person bought them and put them in with no alterations and another had to enlarge the tuner hole for it to fit.

I suspect that the issue is that, as mentioned above, Gotoh makes four different versions of the open back tuners (and I'm not talking about different colors or buttons).  There are 510 and 510V and as far as I can tell the main difference between those two is the size from the center hole to the top screw (with the V being longer).  

Exactly what I was wondering myself. Thanks for the breakdown.

Edit to add, further evidence that I think you're correct: the E20OM-TC-MR comes with Gotoh SXB510-06M-N tuners. That would make sense if they are drop-in replacements for the Pingwells so they don't need to have a slightly different headstock layout.

[Shishigashira]

Adding a bit more to this thread, I went looking for the tuners which are not that easy to track down.  I found a store called Japarts that will place an order with Gotoh for the exact specifications you want and have them delivered to you right from Japan.  The reason for a custom order is that I really like the aged tuners Gotoh makes (their x- versions) but no one has them in stock for the open back 510s.  Still, Japarts informed me that at this time, orders are taking anywhere from 1 to 4 months.  While I understand, I wasn't willing to wait that long. 

I did track down the right tuner from Philadelphia Luthier Tools.  They don't have the aged versions but they do have the right tuner in four different colors, gold, black, nickel and something called cosmo black.  Cosmo black looks like a gun metal gray or smoked gray which seemed really appealing, so that's why I ended up ordering.  I also tracked down some small pearl gotoh buttons to complete the look.  The custom order right from Japan would've been about $130 and this combo comes in right around $100.  Should be a fun upgrade.  I'll post some pics when that is done.

[Hanns]

I did track down the right tuner from Philadelphia Luthier Tools.  They don't have the aged versions but they do have the right tuner in four different colors, gold, black, nickel and something called cosmo black.  Cosmo black looks like a gun metal gray or smoked gray which seemed really appealing, so that's why I ended up ordering.  I also tracked down some small pearl gotoh buttons to complete the look.  The custom order right from Japan would've been about $130 and this combo comes in right around $100.  Should be a fun upgrade.  I'll post some pics when that is done.

What model # did you get? I'm interested to see your upgrade.

[REHII]

I just removed the old ones ( ping I think) and the new DerJung ones fit the holes on my E40D perfectly.
The same in my Martin.
On some guitars I have had to use a bushing to make the hole in the larger modern size holes in the headstock smaller to fit the vintage style tuner shafts.
Also sometime on some guitars only one of the screw holes lined up, but drilling a new one was easy.
But on the E40D the fancy DerJung tuners were a direct fit replacement.
I will say it again, the DerJung tuners I get off eBay that come straight from Taiwan are as good a quality as any tuners I have ever bought.
The ones for classical guitars are really nice too.
They even have a style for slot head steel string guitars that have a bearing on the shaft.
Robert.

[Shishigashira]

What model # did you get? I'm interested to see your upgrade. 

I got the Gotoh SBX510 in Cosmo Black.  But they had them in four colors in stock here: Philadelphia Luthier Tools
Then I ordered a set of the white pearl small buttons (M5) and those I found here: Capital Music Gear

[Shishigashira]

Sad to report that after getting a beautiful set of Cosmo black Gotoh SXB510, they would not fit my E10SS/v at all. Not only that, but I thought I'd be able to unscrew the button and replace with a white one and this model does not have screwed in buttons but rather permanent ones.

As for fit, not only is the post on the Gotohs slightly wider than the Pings, but it also does have a wider base which would need modifying the back of the headstock. Additionally I was unable to remove the bushing. Not sure if it is glued, and I didn't mess with it much, but it wouldn't budge. The post on the Gotoh tuner doesn't fit through the ping bushing. I can insert the post in the existing hole but it will not go in the bushing, and would not fit flush without modifying the hole anyways.

I was hoping this would be a simple(ish) upgrade but unfortunately not on this guitar. Maybe I'll try on a different Eastman, may e I take it to a luthier.

As for others being able to fit the Gotohs, I expect there are variations in the Eastman models and it may just be luck of the draw whether something will fit.

I'll try to add some picks to this post in a bit.

[REHII]

There are two common hole sizes for guitar pegheads.
The common modern size is 10mm or 13/32”. This is what most modern guitars that use sealed tuners use.
Then there is the 11/32” or 8.5mm size that many vintage or vintage style guitars with open back tuners use.
There is a much less common type that has a 11/32” hole on the front of the head that tapers to 1/4” on the back. This is uncommon.
All my Eastman guitars ( only two) have had the vintage style 11/32” holes.
If a guitar has the 10mm size there is a conversion bushing to change to vintage size.
The spacing of the screw holes can vary in size and location.
Must bushings are a press in fit and can be rather tight fitting.
Most tuner manufactures publish the
Specs of the tuners they sell.
Here are the dimensions of the DerJung tuners that were a drop in fit to my E40D
Robert.