Eastman’s weakness?

[robertkoa]

I am really interested in Eastman Guitars - ESPECIALLY the idea of Semi Hollows that narrow the gap between Semis and Archtops - meaning I can get something like a 186MX or a 185MX etc etc and have great resonance and sustain with PHATT enough tones that I do not need distortion/gain to carry the Melody of a Tune AND that I can get some Acoustic flavor and ambience
from the Guitar itself.

I don't have an Eastman yet but love the deep tones they produce [ heard in Demos - not played one yet ] .
I need to see if the wider neck interferes with my techniques- I can tell I will like the Tones.

I love the fact that Eastman is building and designing primarily for TONE - using tried and true AND new Luthiery Technology - [ El Rey Series etc.] I am an advanced Player.....

Amazingly - MOST major Guitar Companies are NOT building and designing for TONE in the Electric Guitar Field- they are merely recreating or imitating what they did in the 50's and 60's and necessarily cutting back on some things.

So I am VERY interested in the Semi Hollow Technology [ really more like 9/10ths hollow ] where the Guitar is Hollow except for a small block under bridge and tailpiece= great possibilities.

1] I have no where to try out an Eastman Electric which is one disadvantage .

2] Eastman wisely uses Jescar Frets - I have those on my current Guitar- they are the best - eventually Eastman can include EVO Gold frets on premium models -which wear much longer but will not require retooling - easier on tools than stainless.
BUT Eastman has an uncommon
1.75" Nut width - so I need to play one to see if there is a serious adjustment from my other Guitars - probably not - but need to make sure.
In Miami- no Dealer carries the Electrics.

3] 25" scale is a great default scale -
As Eastman gets more established I hope they will also carry a 25.5" scale Semi Hollow ( thick semi about 2" ) or possibly like MX Series if they can get it with similarly deep and phatt tones.

Listen to clips of the Marchione 25.5" scale Semihollow to hear what the scale can achieve with a resonant body .
Marchione also build Violins - like Eastman..


4] Coil cuts for Single Coil switching or parallel to tighten up the great Phatt Neck tones - sometimes especially recording Guitarists - we need the thinner tones for dense tracks, different timbres, fingerstyle etc etc.

5] Main thing is get the word out more and more - using established hardware as they are now , established Pickups as they are now helps - keep building for Tones and innovation - get the word out more - offer fairly low charge options from USA Custom shop - better distribution - innovation continuing..

I will let you know IF they really need to go to a more common neck width for a larger market share OR if it's no big deal.

Love the Tones on the better Demos - love the innovation - keep it up.

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One weakness I read in Reviews is the fragile finish of the Lacquer.

Easy fix - don't change ANYTHING that will affect the TONES - but simply adding a catalyst/ hardener to the Lacquer may instantly solve ( largely ) the problem.

Same thin finish just harder - orobably will not affect tone /resonance at all - which is of utmost importance .

[Bert]

robertkoa, welcome to the EGF, very interesting post.  I have experience with some of the guitars you are expressing interest but can't offer the perfect suggestion.  I owned a T184MX for several years, a AR810ce for a while which I traded it for an Eastman AR880ce Pisano... my son now has that fab instrument.  The El Rey 4 is where I landed.  Each one has it's own sweet timbre as you know and hands-on is the best of all for eval.  btw, the noise about Eastman lacquer is way overblown imo, I've been playing Eastmans for many years.

I'm not familiar with the dealers in S. Fla to make a suggestion.  Maple St Guitars here in Atlanta has been an Eastman archtop dealer for many years and have a lot of experience.  Guitars N Jazz in NJ carries Eastman and has a tons of experience.  Maybe call Eastman Pomona and ask for a ref... ?

Not to mislead, where I'm coming from>>  I'm not a jazz solo guitarist yet I dig on  jazz guitars in the mix.  Where the El Rey 4 fits for me is as a color instrument in an arrangement.  My fav jazz music is most always around a great sax player with a guitar in the mix.

One of my favorites is Euge Groove (aka Eugene Grove), slide over to 3:45 for a sample of what I'm layin down.   I think this is Ray Parker Jr on guitar, maybe.   I've seen Ray live with Euge along the way.     bert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFhni2FWCO8

[gnappi]

Gibson for one has floated many design balloons with center block only on machine carved solid backs, all were poo poohed by players. Cort also tested the waters with "Almost" hollow models, and met with failure. I'm sure there were others but it one thing seems likely, the three body style  camps (solid, semi, and hollow) may be too entrenched in dogma / ideology to test the waters of an "almost" or nearly hollow body.

Regarding the MX series, they're such a limited production item I wouldn't call them even marginally successful though they are excellent players.

Robertkoa, you're right about the dearth of dealers, but it's not just us in Florida. IMO this is Eastman's weakness to becoming more well known and accepted. In So. Flo the dealers I called (Pennylane, Chafin and Miami guitars) carry only the Eastman acoustic gits.  It's hard to sell what players can't see and play after all they're not a toaster oven for $39.98 that there's no risk of buying online.  

I don't know if it's reluctance on the part of dealers to take on yet another "new" electric git maker, if Eastman is consciously holding production down and filling their niche with high quality products, or if they just cannot get traction or credibility with dealers to expand their reach.

In any event  right now potential buyers are pretty much stuck with making risky purchases based on internet sound clips, and opinions of owners. All of which can and likely are colored by the owners own dogma / ideology or even a wide eyed fanboy expression of their liking something different.

Before I but something I'm not able to play myself, what I like to read in reviews is something by a player who owns BOTH an Eastman and other well known model, AND I'd like to see videos played through an amp WITHOUT the sound colored by pedals, over drive and other such tripe. To date the former is rather rare, the latter does not exist in sufficient amount for buyers to make an informed decision. 

So my advice to potential owners is, take a leap, sell if you don't like it.

[campacj]

Amen, bro! I would like to see more Eastman guitars both acoustic and electric in local shops. Right now, the only way most players get to test an Eastman out is if it's a trade-in. I'm told that Eastman guitars are becoming more accepted, but I don't see that reflected in the local music shops. That is very sad because Eastman offers so much quality for so much less than the other makers. I, myself, recently purchased a Washburn HB-35WRK because I couldn't try out ANY Eastman electrics. I will say that the Washburn is a beautiful and well-made guitar, although I had to have a Seymour Duncan Hot-Rodded Humbucker Set put on it. The stock pickups on the newer models are garbage!
The point is I wanted to try an Eastman T-486 but that is hard to find. Guitar Center in Denton, TX has one for $1049.99 but I would have to buy it and have it shipped to Seattle, WA just to try it! There are a very few others for sale that are also far, far away.

[Bert]

Distribution is always a major issue with any product.  A brick & mortar guitar store can not generate enough margin to pay overhead selling lower cost guitars.  An established high end dealer can if their business model is well tuned.  It's the modern day dilemma that's driving internet sales, inventory cost can be overwhelming without the volume of sales needed.  Costco is a good example of how cost +15% can work, volume & high inventory turnover is their success.

I feel the same way as everyone, I want to try before I buy.... the nature of things these days just doesn't balance to the economies of scale.  Dylan was right, the times they are a changin.
bert

[Pura Vida]

Yep.  Would I like to try before I buy?  Sure.  But it's just not possible with low-volume products.  For example, the T18x models only sold 52 units in the US last year (got that # directly from Eastman).  Nearly all of my purchases have been via internet, both new and used, and with some research and selectivity, I've done well with price, quality, and tone.

[AlanSam]

After 6 months I received my new AC63BD today. Very disappointed! It is very comfortable to play, sounds great and looks for the most part stunningly good. One thing though, it has a blemish by the heel of the guitar which is a knot in the wood I think. It measures about 1/8 x 3/8 of an inch in extent and stands out like a sore thumb. This piece of wood is clearly not appropriate for use on an expensive blonde guitar – it looks like a bloody wart. There are one or two other things, such as a very shallow concave area about ¼” square on the ebony fingerboard – but I would probably accept this, although by itself it renders the guitar far from boutique quality. But with the knot blemish it is definitely ‘B’ stock quality. Eastman have to be careful to maintain high quality output - it doesn’t have an ‘iconic’ name like Gibson, who seem to get away with this kind of thing regardless.  The dealer gave me a firm date after a number of approximate delivery dates (fair enough), but this was put back a week with no explanation from Eastman according to my dealer, and it didn’t turn up for some time after that. I think maybe it was returned by a customer, and then sent to me? Just a hunch. The guitar is going bloody back!! I would like to share some photos with you to get a feel as to whether my reaction is fully justified, but haven’t figured out how to do this yet. If someone could give me their email address I could send them to you for placing on the forum?

[Bert]

pook happens, the good news is that Eastman has been great about making things like this right.  I agree, no way should you have received a guitar in such condition.  I would blame your dealer just as much as Eastman, they should have sent it back to Eastman.  A dealer shipped a Collings guitar to one of our EGF members recently that was blemished (to say the least) and was sold as new.  Serious bad opinion of dealers who do things like this.  

Very sorry to hear of your misfortune Alan.   bert

[koaguilds]

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I just got a 100% mint condition 2017 T184mx that appears to be flawless in all areas. It sounds incredible too. This on has a rather full founded neck like on an archtop, definitely not slim...but very comfortable and easy to play.

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[img][/img]It has the new smaller headstock too. Here it is next to my Hoyer Ern Prestige solid body to show size comparison. I like that it is small.

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[Pura Vida]

Welcome, koaguilds!  That's a great looking T184MX ---  I just landed a 2016 T185MX this summer, and I love it.

Alan, that's really unfortunate.  It's an incredibly long time to wait, only to be presented with those issues.  I agree with Bert's point about the dealer sharing partial blame, but it sounds like something that shouldn't have made it out the door, as well.  The dealer should have rejected it before it got into your hands.  Hopefully, you can get it resolved quickly (and not another six months!).